Liberals arent liberals anymore
Liberal means open minded. The liberals are not open minded at all to our point of view. They are, how ever, tolerant of gays, abortion, and other things of that sort. I just dont understand it.
Sunday, October 02, 2005
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- Name: Bushcheney08
- Location: Mukilteo, Washington., United States
I will be applying for Julliard next year. Anyone who has previously auditioned or attended/graduated, your input is welcome.
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- Debate Oratory
- Shut up and Sing
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- Bush is The Better Man
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- Its not Bush's fault
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21 Comments:
"Liberal means open minded. The liberals are not open minded at all to our point of view. They are, however, tolerant of gays, abortion, and other things of that sort. I just dont understand it."
The liberals are not open-minded at all to our point of view, because we are not "open-minded regarding gays, abortion and other things of that sort." If we were, then we would be liberals. There would still be argument over taxes, socialism and war, however, and that would still define two seperate parties; democrats being in favor of socialism and higher taxes, and against war unless the Democrats are in political power and see it as something that cannot be avoided, and Republicans being in favor of protecting the country at all costs, in favor of lowering taxes to give people more money to spend, thus making more money in the long run because everything we buy is taxed; and being dead set against socialism because we believe a country totally dependent on the government is a country setting itself up for a complete and utter downfall.
Regarding the taxes, when taxes are cut, more money is available on an individual basis. Consumer spending rises, causing increased demand, causing increased production, causing hiring, (meaning more people are employed who can spend money and each product is taxed, plus their incomes are taxed) thus the entire economy gets a boost from the newly hired people, and so does the goverment.
I got sidetracked! As I was saying:
In other words, two parties would exist on those three issues alone: taxes, socialism versus capitalism, and war. That's the way it has been for most of the history of the United States. Only in recent history has the gay/abortion/Christian issues become such a dividing line. But it's still not crystal clear, because all Republicans are not against abortion, and all Democrats are not for it. The same holds true for gays. Not every Democrat thinks gays should have the right to get married, and I'm not certain all liberals feel that way, just most. Not all Republicans feel threatened by Gay marriage (moderate Republicans) but I don't believe all conservatives do, either. We humans have this thing about lumping all people together by category, but there is no black and white: there are shades of gray, always!
I hope I haven't confused you! :)
If taxes are lower, services provided by the government decrease. Stop to think about everything that government provides for you. Taxes are extremely reasonable considering everything that all levels of the government provide. In some countries, such as Australia, there are extremely high taxes, however Australia has free healthcare coverage AND free higher education. There is a lot of weighing to do, and it isn't really al lthat simple. A lot of people don't realize, though, how much they recieve for the money they pay in taxes.
Allisoni- Are you a Socialist? You sure do sound like one.
The only thing I will receive from the Government will be my Social Security, which is money I paid into the system in the first place. I have been dirt poor. So poor I didn't know where my next meal might come from, literally. But I have never stood on a corner begging, and I have never asked the Government for anything, except hospital coverage while my husband spent 20 years in the Military. What do I receive for the money I pay in taxes? I would like you to list them, Allisoni. I would like to know what I will receive from the Government when my 18 year old daughter (adopted) graduates from high school next year and I still am required to pay taxes on the school, and I don't even live within the city limits of the town where the school is located? I would like to know how I benefit whenever I improve my property and my property taxes increase. There's no incentive to improve my property, is there? I put in a greenhouse, my taxes go up. I put in a pool, my taxes go up! I improve a house that everyone thought should be bulldozed because it was valued at $0.00 and now is valued at $300,000, and my taxes go way up! I improve the barn and the sheds that were on the property, and my taxes go up! Would you tell me please, how that benefits me?!!! I sure would like to know. All it does is punish people for improving their property. I've done it anyway because I can afford to, but many people can't. They can't afford to improve their property because they can't afford to pay more property tax.
I don't take Government handouts and never have, even when I could have because I have too much self-respect. If I haven't the gumption to make it on my own, then I deserve to stay poor. I don't believe in a welfare state. I do believe that people who honestly cannot work because of disabilities should be cared for, but the system needs to be monitored much more energetically than it is, because there are so many frauds out there; people perfectly capable of working with enough education to do so, but they don't want to work. They cheat the Government and by doing so they cheat the hardworking people of this country, and in order to keep these programs going, our taxes go up. Okay, I'd be willing to pay more in taxes to hire people to monitor these programs and weed out the fakes because if that is done, then in the long run we won't be paying so much and rewarding deadbeats with our hard earned dollars.
Then there's the fact that there is a lot of "public housing" in this town that is about to fall apart, and most of the people who live in these dumps drive newer cars than I do! If they can afford those cars, why can they not afford a place of their own that I don't have to pay taxes on to support? And where does the money I pay to support them go, because I sure don't see any improvement in public housing! Go ahead, tell me again how much I benefit from higher taxes. It's bunk and you know it.
Gayle has a good point about taxes, especially considering that virtually none of our tax dollars go into any kind of definable "service" to begin with. This is a difficult subject for most North American people to accept (it applies both to the U.S. and Canada, where I live), but both countries are in a situation where the interest on their debts exceeds the total amount of money in circulation. What we pay in taxes MUST be put 100% against those interest payments, while the country, in the meantime, runs itself further into a debt it has no hope of ever paying.
The taxation system is not what people think, and it is a largely unconstitutional an illegal system, setup to further the agenda of people like the Rothchilds and the other high-ranking families who first began the world-banking system and in essence own all the money in the world.
It has never been demonstrated to me why the government should be alotted such a large chunk of my money. Taxes are NOT reasonable - you have no idea how much money you actually pay in tax. In British Columbia, for instance, we pay 14.5% sales tax (7% Federal, 7.5% provincial), but that is on top of the original purchase price, which the vendor already paid tax on, which was bought from a distributor who paid tax from a wholesaler who paid tax from a manufacturer who paid tax. Most of the money that comes out of our pockets to buy things ends up going to tax. Sick.
I'll buy that liberals are not so good at being liberal anymore (as you define it as a lack of open-minded-ness) if you'll agree that conservatives aren't very conservative anymore (in that they're not so good at personal or fiscal responsibility).
To support my thesis, I'll point to the bloated budget under the last three Republican presidents and to current Republicans' lack of personal responsibility for our environment, for instance.
If you want my opinion I think both parties are going down the poop chute. I've even thought about calling myself an "independent Conservative" if that even exists.
Gayle - excellent dialogue on the taxes. I applaud you
For once, there has been some good discussion here. kudos guys.
Do you value your HOMELAND SECURITY? Do you recieve mail via the postal service? Do you have garbage removal services? Does the DNR or Public Works system take care of public grounds in your city? Have you ever visited a national park? Driven on a road or highway that didn't need maintnance? Will you ever need Medicare? If we didn't pay taxes, we wouldn't get any of that. And the list goes on and on. You don't have to "take hand outs" from the government in order to receive the services it provides.
Right now, thanks to the current administration, the Federal budget is a joke. And I can say that confidently because I am rigorously studying it right now in the school that your tax dollars provide. Is your daughter the only reason you support education? I would certainly hope you value it, as it's creating the doctors and nurses who you may one day rely on, future politicians, etc.
Well Saint, I am glad we have reached a meeting of the minds on something! Kudos to us both. :)
Cate: I think you are super cool also... Easy to feel that way since you agree with me!
Now to answer Allison Balloni: This is going to be long so please forgive me. It should probably be a post:
Question #1: Do you value your homeland security?
Answer: Not really. The borders have not been secured and I have a big issue with that. We are letting illegal immigrants into this country by the thousands on a daily basis. That doesn't make me feel secure. I'm especially aware of that as I live in Central Texas.
Question #2. Do you receive mail via the postal service? Of course, and I pay for the privilege. Stamps cost money in order to support the postal service. The only reason stamps haven't gone up in price to at least 50 cents each is because the postal service competes with commercial carriers, such as Fedex, Brown, & DLS, and that keeps their prices down because they have to compete.
Question #3. Have you ever visited a National Park? Yup... and had to pay to get in. Your point?
Question #4. Have you ever driven on a road or highway that didn't need maintenance? Nope. Can't say that I have, and I have traveled this country coast to coast and border to border many times over. They all need maintenance. They should be in better shape than they are considering the taxes we pay to keep them maintained.
Question #5. Will you ever need Medicare? No, for two reasons. (1) My husband spent 20 years in military service and (2) We have both invested our money very wisely over the last 40 years and are comfortably set for life, no matter what happens to either one of us. We will never need government handouts. Neither will any of our children have to foot the bill.
Question #6: Is your daughter the only reason you support education?
Yes. Her education and my previous three children's education. I have paid enough. I am paying now not only for the taxes on her schooling, but buying supplies for other kids whose parents are poor. In other words, I have to pay for 50 boxes of kleenexes during one school year. That's because some kids cannot buy kleenexes! My daughter could have a runny nose every school day of the year and she wouldn't use all that! We have tax incentives for people who do the right thing and support government projects, ie., bonds. In all fairness, school taxes should be accessed on the basis of how many children one has enrolled in Public schools; those people without children shoud be tax exempt until their children are enrolled and exempt from taxes when they have graduated. That's the only fair way of doing it. On a volunteer basis we support charitable institutions such as police structures and Firemen because none of them are paid what they are really worth. And by the way, most politicians these days go to private schools and expensive colleges.
Regarding the Federal Budget: I agree with you, it is indeed a mess. Most of us legitimate taxpayers pay at least 20 to 30% of our income to the Federal Government, disregarding hidden taxes. If the national budget was based on the same percentage, or let us say 28% of the gross national product, that would be a reasonable place to put the ceiling for Federal expenditures. For example: if our gross national product is 1.7 trillion dollars and we cap our budge at 28% of that, then our expenditures could be 376 billion dollars, give or take 10%. This however, does not include expenditures for national disasters and wars against terrorists.
Everyone has been complaining about our expenditures in the war against terrorism, expecially Iraq. They haven't sat down and compaired the total damage repair cost, both in human life and in monitary dollars to repair any of our major cities from a nuclear bomb, even one as weak as the ones dropped on Hiroshima and Nagasaki. Nuclear devices are now available that are one hundred times more powerful than the Atomic bombs used on either one of those cities during World War II. Katrina should tell us that major disasters are far more costly than we ever expected, be they natural or man made.
The overriding problem with taxes in my mind is first of all a lot of what Gayle said there. I don't think Gayle is saying that ALL taxes are wrong, certainly any government needs funds, and we should be contributing to the services we take advantage of. ... the services we take advantage of. I certainly do not believe that I should have to pay for other people's services - ones which I may or may not ever use.
The other problem is the question of where the tax dollars go. As I explained in my previous post, what we pay in taxes does NOT go to our government services. It goes almost directly into the hands of the people behind the world bank. No amount of taxes can ever hope to pay that debt back because there is now more debt than there is money in circulation.
ANd Gayle - I knew we'd find something to agree on sooner or later :)
saint says:
"we should be contributing to the services we take advantage of... I certainly do not believe that I should have to pay for other people's services - ones which I may or may not ever use."
This is the mantra of the conservative. "All I care about is me." Well, if that's the way you feel, then go buy an island somewhere and live there.
You live in a society. Your way of life, the things you enjoy, the quality of life, the feeling in your town, the things you see around you, everything you are a part of in American society, in your State society, in your City and Town and Neighborhood society, is due to the contributions and uniqueness of the other people in this society.
Gayle, you don't want to help pay for other kids educations? Then go live somewhere where there aren't other kids. Don't you understand that by investing in future generations you are making your life better? The more educated and non-poor people we have in our society, the better our society is.
Our government has been a bloated bureaucracy for a century. But taxes are a necessary annoyance. And the wealthier should pay at least proportionally more. With the growing discrepancy between the wealthy and the poor, it's getting pretty clear even to non econ students that the system isn't working well. Just having a job and working is no longer a clear way out of poverty.
Also, jesus Gayle, you fear for your homeland security because there's a bunch of Mexicans in Texas? What a crock of shite. However, we do have to acknowledge that the huge influx of poor people from Mexico is hurting our society. Poverty hurts all of society. And it is in society's best interest to get rid of society.
Artificially low prices for good produced by poor immigrant workers or through unfair trade agreements with poor countries may make things cheaper for people to buy but it only helps to maintain and grow the poverty class.
Yeah, it's really nice to think in terms of black and white, and us and them, and mine and not mine, but that's not reality. Deal with the fact that you're part of a society. No, it's not society's responsibility to provide everything for everyone. But it is society's responsibility to acknowledge the realities of life.
Selfish Republican creeps.
Dak makes a good point and one that I can definately agree with. There are societal obligations that we have - and obviously taxes are one of these things. And I certainly am not against extending a helping hand, in fact I also think there should be more of this.
However, I don't believe it should something that is A) Administrated financially by the government or B) Mandatory.
Governments have agendas, no matter whose government it is, and shouldn't be trusted with the fair distribution of social monies. No government has ever proven its ability to properly address the problem of poverty, and as I have said as well, taxes paid are not going into these programs regardless.
I also believe that it should be my choice to help where and how I will. In terms of paying for services, my own personal usage should be taken into account. Not (to use schools as an example) that people should be totally bereft of any societal responsibility, but if I were to send my children to a private school, paid for entirely out of my pocket, there should be a factor in that for how much tax I have to pay towards public schools. Just to give an example.
Okay Saint, this is getting weird: Once again, I agree with everything you said here. Who says there's no such thing as miracles? :) And I don't need to reiterate it because you said it so well! I really have to add this though: I do resent it when people call me selfish. Everyone who knows me knows I am not selfish. I'm not going to go into what I do to help others because that is against my religion. We are not supposed to brag about charitable actions towards others, because then we are only doing it for the approval of others.
But there is absolutely no way that I am a selfish person, no matter how many times someone throws that weak argument out there. "All I care about is me" is not the mantra of conservatives. I have to work really hard at controlling my temper when people like "Dark" throw out that sort of accusation. It's so easy to pass judgemnent when one doesn't know what he/she is talking about.
Speaking of taxes...anyone here know about the Fair Tax Plan? If not look it up. http://www.fairtax.org
Dark said: "Also, jesus Gayle, you fear for your homeland security because there's a bunch of Mexicans in Texas? What a crock of shite. However, we do have to acknowledge that the huge influx of poor people from Mexico is hurting our society. Poverty hurts all of society. And it is in society's best interest to get rid of society."
What!!! "It's in society's best interst to get rid of society???!!!
Uh, I can't respond to that. It doesn't make any sense.
Also, don't you just love people who can't make their point without swearing?
I'm not worried about the Mexicans in Texas. I'm worried about the terrorists crossing our borders, both the southern and northern borders, and if you're not, then shame on you! We probably already have terrorists cells in this country, thanks to our open boarders. Dark also suggests if I don't want to pay for other people's kids educations then I should move somewhere where there aren't any kids. Tell me Dark... where would that be?
Seriously, (I have to keep repeating myself) I have been poor. I have been poor with kids! No one supplied my kids with kleenex, or pencils, or paper or anything else. I would cut hair, or launder clothing, or sew, but I and my husband always paid our own way! Is that clear enough for you?
No Joe, I'm not familiar with the Fair Tax Plan. I like the name of it though and will go look it up as you suggest.
One last note to Dark:
I truly do not understand how anyone can take what I said to mean that I fear for my security because there are a bunch of Mexicans in Texas. I have never said any such thing. I fear for my security because their are illegals in Texas as well as the rest of this country, and they are not all Mexicans. They are Terrorists. Don't put words in my mouth that I didn't even think, let alone say!
You are right, Cate. And they are really going to "go on the defensive" once Terrorists start bombing the crap out of this country! Also, they'll be the first to yell "Why didn't Bush do something about our borders?"
gayle,
I didn't realize it took so many years to become a ranting moron, or are you simply rehashing what you've been for the past 50 plus years? Just curious.
As far as the point of this blog goes, why should anyone tolerate intolerance?
Interesting, Scribe. You came onto my blog and cussed me out. Is it the cross that bothers you? Good!
Being called a "ranting moron" by the likes of you is a compliment. Thanks!
That scribe guy proves this post correct.
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